Business Not 101

Learning from entrepreneurs through a podcast with Take the Lead host Carine Badran

November 08, 2022 Olivier Bousette Season 3 Episode 25
Business Not 101
Learning from entrepreneurs through a podcast with Take the Lead host Carine Badran
Show Notes Transcript

Carine is the podcast host of Take The Lead.  She has interviewed various leaders in different industries in order to find out what makes them the best of the best. As a content creator, she has been able to gauge the attention of listeners and viewers in over 40 countries. From business to mindset, her podcast uncovers stories of leaders from multiple backgrounds & circumstances. 


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Olivier:Welcome to business, not 1 0 1 hosted by me, Olivier Bousette, founder, entrepreneur podcast creator. In this episode, we explore the founder's journey from their aha moment to the roadblocks and problems to what they would've done differently in hindsight, and the unique solutions they came up with. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Olivier :: Hi, Carine how are you?

Carine: I'm good. How are you,

Olivier :: Perfect. Thank you so much for joining us on Business, Not 1 0 1. Let's get right into it. Please introduce yourself.

Carine: Yeah, of course. So, as you know, my name is Carine. I'm podcast host of Take the Lead. Also content creators. You can find my, my social media platform. It's pretty much everywhere with our LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok. But yeah, it's it's been a pleasure. It's been a ride since 2019. I've had my own podcast.

At first thinking I have to have a business myself and have to have a name that I've built for myself before entering this podcast world. And I did for a while. I [00:01:00] was in marketing had a digital marketing agency back in 20 18, 20 19. And then I decided when Covid hit that I would venture in, get more experience in the sales world, but also continue my podcast on the side and get to build those connections, which, You know, with, with Covid and, and Coronavirus and being in lockdowns in Montreal, as you know, it was a little.

It was a little hectic with trying to build those connections, right? It was hard to talk to people and see them. So I figured the podcast and keeping it going was the best thing to do, and it's really been a ride. It's been a pleasure to meet people from so many different backgrounds and we can, we can talk about that a little further, I guess, and and people that otherwise you wouldn't have maybe met or came.

But with a podcast, it gives you that sort of leverage to reach out to them and build that connection.

Olivier :: Yeah, that's really interesting. And could you give us a 60 second introduction on your podcast, What it's about and sort of where it came from?

Carine: Yeah. It [00:02:00] started with trying to find a passion. I think when you're trying to find something, you wanna just reach out to so many people to see like what they do, what they. , Right? Whether it's in engineering, whether it's in the pharmaceutical industry whether it's like entrepreneurship. And I want to see how people could be successful in so many different industries and what separates them from someone who isn't as successful in that industry.

So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna reach out to people who really dominated their field and, and whatever they're doing, especially in entrepreneurship, because it's so hard to be successful in running your own. . And so I reached out to one person who was my mentor at the time, and I told her, Hey, like, thank you for giving me so much advice for my own business and whatnot.

Would you like to be on a podcast? She was like, Yeah. And at first I thought it would've been really hard to get someone to get on the podcast and let me interview them, and I was so nervous. Because at first what I was doing is I wanted do it like [00:03:00] more cinematic sitting down, having cameramen and doing it more of like an Oprah style interview but then I realized, you know, Pretty expensive to do every time. Right? And it takes a lot of time and you have to go to that person's office. So I figured with Covid happening, I was like, You know what? I'm gonna start doing this, but more virtually and it's gonna be more scalable. And yeah, it's just really about leadership and people who are leaders in their own industries and what they're doing and picking their brains to see what makes them stand out versus other people.

Olivier :: That's really interesting it, in sort of looking at, you have a ton of episodes more so than I do. So you, you've been creating a lot of these episodes. Did your podcast pivot from your original sort of concept in your mind to what it is today? Or did it sort of naturally morph into that because of the way you interview it or your personal experiences

Carine: yeah, it's, it's a very good question. If you have listened to my podcast, you've known that my first episodes were around lady [00:04:00] leaders and lady leadership. And I wanted to interview women who were leaders in their industries. And then I figured, why am I just doing that exclusively for women? I think both men and women have a lot to say in business especially.

You're looking at it from a more feminist standpoint, I think the people who can make the the difference are men. If we can change their minds, then as women, we would love that. Right. And yeah, so going more from a feminist standpoint to a standpoint where it's like, I just wanna interview anyone who's, who's in leadership.

And I think just on a more general level, it really helped me boost my business and my podcast even more. You know, people have so some, some, so much to say about whatever they're doing. And yeah, and especially being in the leadership aspect of things, you'll notice that a lot of the people who are in those positions are men and they do have something to say whether it be about women in business or whether it be about being successful in their own business.

So yeah, it did change a lot since.[00:05:00] 

Olivier :: That's, that's a great point. Do you feel your style of interviewing, but as well the questions you've asked, have they changed a lot from your experiences because what you've learned from them and saying, You know what, this is an actual interesting question to go and ask, .

Carine: Mm. Yeah, for sure. It's a very good question because at first you, you know, you write down your questions, you really wanna make sure that whatever you're asking is relevant. And now looking back, sometimes I'll, I'll go ahead and listen and be like, Ugh, I have had so much to learn from back then. Because you'll notice that your questions change and your perspective changes, and you don't wanna be in like this barrier.

and you wanna go with the flow and actually listen to the person. So one thing that a lot of people who have podcasts do is they don't listen. They wanna just ask questions. And I think that's sometimes what takes away from the, the natural aspect of the conversation and makes it a little bit more yeah, more like in, in a little box and you're trying to fit everything in there.

It's not a bad thing. I don't, I don't think it is, especially when [00:06:00] you are very niche and your podcast is niche. But when you're trying to build a connection with someone, it's hard to build that when you're either not listening or you're just trying to ask questions that are not relevant to the, the conversation that.

Should actually be happening. So yeah, it's happened multiple times in the last few, few podcast episodes where I had an intention coming into the podcast and then it just changes because I notice like this person wants to, has a lot to say about this topic. Which at the beginning I was just not listening as much.

And yeah, I cringe a little bit when I listen there, but I think everyone who's a content creator has, has that a little bit when they look back at their old stuff,

Olivier :: Yeah, a hundred percent. Actually, when I first started podcasting, I jumped onto Clubhouse the audio app when, you know, right at its peak at the beginning. And there was a pos podcasting episodes, and they brought in a guest host called Jeff Duma, which is Entrepreneurs on Fire. And I raised my hand and got to ask them a question, which is and I said, You know, [00:07:00] were you always good at it or do you feel like it took a long time?

And he says, Don't listen to my first a hundred episodes. And I, I, I feel the same way. I feel like there's so much you learn from it.

Carine: No, for sure. And and you'll notice that people are just like, they, they're scared to take the leap because they don't want to go through that first hundred episodes, like they're scared to fail or not do as well. And I think it was Brene Brown who talks about vulnerability and at the, at the end of the day, if someone's not in the arena, if someone's.

You know, doing the same work as you, and that's what you're scared of. You're scared of their judgment. You know, that's given me so much like so much better feeling about, I don't know. It's, I just felt so much better thinking about that, that at the end of the day, I can only feel like someone's criticism is worthy if they're doing the same thing as me.

So why would I mind. Failing for a little bit, or not doing as what? As, as well as I am doing now. Because if I hadn't gone through that, I wouldn't, I [00:08:00] wouldn't be doing as well. Right. So yeah, it's, it's scary, but at the same time, who cares? . Like, that's, that's my thought process right now.

Olivier :: Yeah, I agree. And you're actually in a very unique position because you've done a lot more episodes than almost, I think there's like 2 million podcasts out there, but only, I think it's, and I'm gonna throw that out there. So 5% actually make more than 15 episodes. So you're, you're in a, in very small group of people.

There's like half a million active podcasts beyond a couple episodes. Most people stop after one episode and I think just cuz it's very scary to do this. So hats off that the,

Carine: Yeah.

Olivier :: what was. The hardest part of doing your podcast? What? It is the hardest part, I should say. , Well, for me it's editing.


Carine: Yeah.

Olivier :: as fun as it is in a way, it's also one of the hardest things for me.

Carine: Editing. Yeah, for sure. I think that is, is a tough one, but also time management and making sure that I'm being consistent. I think consistency is tough because you're not just relying on your own skills, you're relying on other [00:09:00] people's availabilities. You're relying on other parts of your life where you have to.

Either you're working at a job, you have a family, you have a house to maintain, but you also have this podcast that's a side hustle that means a lot to you. Which is how I feel really. And having to fit all that and edit it and have that conversation, make sure the person's engaged. So the time management aspect is, is kind of tough, and I'm trying to master that and set things up in advance so that I could keep it.

but then you go on vacation and then you come back and it's like everything's just on reset, right? And you have to start again. It's not that I don't care enough to try. It's like, I guess just a. I like, I need to just work on that. Right. And and I think that could be misconstrued because at the end of the day, the people who are successful and have 2 million podcast, like all the 2 million podcasts out there, and people who, who end up on top are the people who are consistent and people who let something out every two days.

I don't know how they do it, but to me, the quality matters so much versus the [00:10:00] quantity. That's what I try to balance.

Olivier :: Yeah. Time management and for me, Next thing I would say is constantly doing a social media.

It's like a full-time job podcast, which is was really meant, his little passion side project has turned into like sometimes a full week's work to catch up and to pump it out there. So yeah, I hear you.

Carine: Yeah, for sure. I think with with social media as well, it takes a lot of time, right, to advertise and to put that content out there. Make it into snippets. I, I know this is like the world's smallest violin playing right now for me, , but I think, I think it's it's still something that people, you know, don't realize.

They just think, you know, you recorded something and put it on the podcast like a app. And it's not that simple, but it's also fun you know, coming from background of marketing. And having social media, being content creator, it is fun to see how you can pivot that content and make it out to be what it is that you see.

And that comes with the passion of having a podcast, but it is challenging for sure,[00:11:00] 

Olivier :: Yeah, it is. It's a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun too. And getting to meet amazing people, that's something you can't reproduce. I know a lot of businesses are jumping into the podcast realm because they find it's a great medium to convey messages and information, and I find it a bit more interesting in certain ways than just video.

So, you know, looking just at videos and what I was shocked, I think is also how many people listen to. youtube of watch YouTube to listen to podcasts. That was something that shocked me. There's so many people that actually just opened up a podcast on YouTube and just let it play, so that's really interesting

Carine: Yeah, it's it's really that like short content too that works. I know there's on YouTube right now, like the shorts, and I had to, I had a pleasure of interviewing someone who's kind of a YouTube expert. They have a course and everything, and one of the best advices they gave me was posts on YouTube.

YouTube is the future. Even kids now, they don't watch. , like tv, the way that we used to, they watch YouTube videos. Right? So it could be a great way to have exposure. Then [00:12:00] again, I, I'm really bad with that. So manage that as well.

Olivier :: I just started. So I didn't realize how many listeners it was actually it was somebody on on Twitter that mentioned it, and I reached out to her and she was like, Oh, yeah, you're not on it. You have to be on it. 

Carine: Hundred percent. Yeah. That's good. It's good to post on there. So yeah, now I see why you say it's, it's challenging the editing part too, because when it's video, it's it's a whole other game.

Olivier :: Yeah, it is. It is. Something. Sort of switching gears a little bit, what is the biggest thing you want your listeners to take away from your podcasts? 

Carine: Relate that anything is possible. I interview people who come from so many different backgrounds whether they're immigrants and people who didn't start off on the, the best circumstances and had to do everything from scratch. Like, I wanna show that that is possible. And really stories that get to me and that I love are racks or richest stories and stories where someone is, isn't in the best circumstance.

And sometimes, most of the time when people listen to podcasts, they're either on their way to work to a job that they don't like, or they're [00:13:00] doing something that they're not enjoying as much. Or maybe they're trying to get their mind off of things. They're depressed, they have anxiety. And that's a common thing in our society right now.

And I know that there will be someone listening who will see like, This person was in the same position as me and they made something out of it, and they turned that pain into power, into passion, and that's really one thing that I want them them to take away from it. . But also a lot of the times what you'll hear on different podcasts is like you have to wake up super early.

You have to have this crazy routine. You have to be disciplined. And one of the questions that I ask on my podcast to everybody, which is like, what is your morning routine like? And I like to know, you know, if you come from this super successful business, I wanna know how you got there. Did you have to have these routines?

It's actually true. And this is a common thing I think right now on social media is like you have to wake up at 5:00 AM drink your green juice walk your dog all before like seven, 7:00 AM in the morning. And I [00:14:00] want people to see that, that that isn't always the case. People are able to be successful without having that.

And yeah, so just I think we all have that part in our lives. And I opened up a little bit on my podcast. I spoke about how. When I was a kid, I didn't see myself going far in life. You know, I'm 24 right now to make over six figures, and no one would've thought that, right? But I think when I was in high school, I would've never seen myself be in that position at this age because people would tell me, you know, I don't see you going into this program.

Maybe try and do something else. This isn't for you. And then going through life and being inspired by these podcasts, being inspired by these people that I would see in such successful positions, being like, Oh, this is possible. They were in worse positions than me. And that's really what changed it for me.

That's what I attribute. , you know, my success to, other than obviously my parents who put in so much for [00:15:00] me and, and brought me to this country and raised me here. But that's what I think, and I think that everybody deserves a chance. If I get to be that chance for people and they get to see that on my podcast, then that's, I've done my work.

Like that's all I need to do in life.

Olivier :: That's so interesting. Yeah. That's brilliant. Love that. And do you feel that if you had an opportunity, would you mentor people to also start their own podcast or mentor them in business?

Carine: Yeah, it's something that I've thought about. Although I will always have imposter syndrome, I've, I never see myself as something I, I never really think much of what I do, and I think. I look at people sometimes who do mentor, who do have coaching business, and I'm like, I wish I could be like you and, and really believe enough in what I do to like teach someone.

I'm not saying that I don't know enough but I would like to potentially get to that level where I feel like I have so much expertise. And, and know what I'm doing, what I'm saying enough to teach someone and to [00:16:00] mentor someone. Granted I do have people who are younger who do reach out to me and say, Hey, can we help on a call?

Like, I wanna see how you did your podcast. I wanna see how you are where you are right now. And I'm more than happy to teach, not teach them, but have that conversation with them and, and tell them how I did what I. . But to get to that point, which is re one of the reasons why I got back into the workforce and I wanted to work for a business was because I wanted to get all the experience that I maybe was lacking and make sure that I know what I'm saying.

And whatever I do say or do is a hundred percent backed up by my actions and, and my experience. Which I think in today's assist, like day and age, it's a little hard to find Everyone's an. Everyone, you know, post a few YouTube videos and, and blow up and think that's that's what it is. But at the end of the day, people who do get to places or people who know exactly what they're doing, that know that aid is end of everything.

You know, give or take. But I do think to a certain degree, I would like to have much [00:17:00] more expertise before I like transfer that to someone else.

Olivier :: I understand that. I understand that. But it's, it's funny we say imposter syndrome, like it's a disease or like a virus and that's inaccurate. It was actually Drew Dudley an author that I had interviewed recently. And he said, Why are we looking at

Carine: Mm-hmm.

Olivier :: you know, what you have inside you is so much more than we think it is. We need to break that, that sort of wording down to say it's not imposter. It means I have a right amount of doubt to make myself humble and grounded as opposed to just believing everything and just sort of spewing it out there.

So I think, there's a lot there to, to do. But it's interesting and that's the reason I ask cuz you look like somebody who's really like, and I've listened to several episodes and I was sort of amazed. , but you really convey that in experience well in your podcast, so,

Carine: you. Thank you. I appreciate that,

Olivier :: So from starting your podcast, what has been one thing that you can say has been a personal takeaway 

Carine: that's a good question. A good takeaway would be don't [00:18:00] be so skeptical of your own abilities. Which comes back, I guess, to imposter sin. Like everybody is reachable. You could reach anyone. And most of the time I'll reach out to someone who is so popular, famous, maybe has so many followers, and I'm like, You know what?

I'm gonna shoot my shot and let me reach out to them, see if they'll, they'll be willing to come on the podcast. And I've had someone who's really, really famous be like, You know what? Thanks for reaching out. When you're a little bigger, we'll have that conversation. So it's just as valuable for both. I was like, What?

This person, but you know, I was grateful because they actually answered me. And I don't think people will take that chance and try to reach out to someone because they'll think, Well, this person's way too big for me. Okay, well maybe they are, but shoot your shot. And at least you have that in. Now you're in their messages and you're gonna, if you ans if you send them a message in a few months or weeks at least you'll have that chance to be like, Hey, like I reached out to you.

Sometimes they'll tell me, Okay, well [00:19:00] email my. And let's schedule a time. Now I have the assistant's name. Now I have an in to their emails and I have a way to sort of reach out to them again if, let's say, that wasn't the best time for me to do that, to do so so not, I wouldn't be, so I'm not anymore.

Actually at, at first I was really scared to reach out to people and now I'm like, You know what? If someone I really think will gain value from being on my podcast, and if I, my people and people who are listening to my podcast will gain value. I will reach out to them cause I see a greater good from it.

And it's also connections that you build and people that I wouldn't, like I said, never have thought that I could have in my messages or have on Instagram that I could always just reach out to. So it's a great way to build connections.

Olivier :: It is, It's something I didn't realize how much of a, of a sort of door breaker, downer, if you want, lack of better terms to get in front of people that normally you would never be able to because it's outside. Of your normal field or also you have no other connections. [00:20:00] And it was very scary at the beginning when people would reject me and cuz you felt like, am I doing the right thing?

So I feel that, and I actually had to build a media kit cuz a lot of people start to ask me like, Oh, you need to send this to my publicist. And you're like, What? I thought you were just like a little entrepreneur. I didn't realize you had all this like crew behind you.

Carine: A hundred percent. I think it's also super interesting because you test your limits. You, you are out of your comfort zone in those positions, right? You're put in, in front of someone who is lots of people would, would dream of being in front of, and you're like, Well, I'm there and I'm, I'm in this position right now.

Like, what do I do? What do I say? As much as you prep yourself, it's like going on stage, right? If it's like speaking to thousands and millions of people, . It's it, it really does put you outside your comfort zone, and I love that because it helps with so many ways. It hel, it helps you in your personal life, but also in your business life.

Cuz then when you're put in front of a CEO to pitch your project, well, it's not as big of a deal because I've, I've already pitched my podcast to CEOs, right? So that's a way of looking at it too.[00:21:00] 

Olivier :: That's brilliant. That's so true. So, switching gears a little bit, what has been the most successful social media outlet for you to sort of bring your podcast to a bigger audience?

Carine: Yeah, that's a good question. I think with Instagram is a platform that I understand very well. I've tested it out a lot of times. And a lot of the short form content, whether it is YouTube shorts, Instagram meals, ticks, those are the kinds of contents that are pushed out a lot by these platforms, and I've been able to leverage that enough for my own page, but also for my podcast page to either re recreate content or even sometimes repost content that is very inspir.

And it gets pushed out so much and it gives you so much exposure. So I've been able to use that to my own benefit and to put out content that is, that resonates with my kind of audience and the audience that I want for my demographic and for my, my content. But also for my personal page is being.

I guess a hundred percent in showing who I am and what I [00:22:00] do outside the podcast I think gives you a lot more credibility and lets people see who you are and fall in love with your brand versus just the people that you interview. So that would be like a, I guess, like an advice that, a piece of advice that I would give someone who wants to start out, just like be honest, be vulnerable, but also make sure that the content that you're posting is relevant, but also is going to be pushed out.

Right. Don't focus so much on posting picture. Post videos, post either videos of yourself on the podcast or videos of other, other content creators, and obviously give them credit. But TikTok as well. TikTok is a platform that I think has a lot of potential. And think about it this way, the types of platforms that have.

that are the most recent or the types of content that are the most recently pushed out by these big multinational companies like Instagram use that. It's, it's content that will be pushed out so much more is gonna give you so much more exposure. And TikTok is one of those platforms that has only been around, what, like three [00:23:00] years now.

So use that, use TikTok, use it, and it's a little outside your comfort zone again, but don't hesitate to, to try and see where you can go with it.

Olivier :: Yeah, that's so true. But it sort of falls back to us saying it's so much energy and time to des. That because right, to create videos for TikTok, even though it seems like it's a minute, short or 30 seconds, could take you an hour to produce, and I think, TikTok which I spend way too much time on

Carine: Yeah.

Olivier :: That's my own thing. But yeah. That's brilliant. 

Carine: Yeah, I mean, one of the, the things you could do as well is one thing that I do is I'll make like one content day where I'll shoot some stuff all week. I'll be writing down ideas. I'll see what's being viral, what audios are viral, what videos are viral, what kind of content people are really liking.

And then I'll write that down. And then on a Sunday, I. v film, everything, and during that week I'll push it out. So there's a way around the, the time management, but it's like, okay, then you have a podcast and you have like three social media platforms that you have to keep up with. So I, I [00:24:00] understand too, for sure.

Olivier :: Yeah, but that's, that goes back to like what you were saying earlier. It becomes, you know, those little side projects now becoming like a full-time endeavor. 

Carine: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. for sure.

Olivier :: So my next question is, what other podcasts or books has influenced you to, to, to build your podcast? It, you know, is it a book you read or is it other podcasts you listen to that suddenly, you know, like you said, I want to do that.

Like, you know, for me it was Jeff Duas of Entrepreneurs on Fire, Nick Loper of, you know The Side Hustle Nation. Those ones were really sort of the people that inspired me to go into this.

Carine: Yeah, it's really cool. I guess when I first started I was really big on Oprah Winfrey and her SuperSoul conversations. I think I. Like, listen to her episodes at least three times each, just because I love how she asks questions and she really goes into the minds of people who are listening.

And she'll double down on that. Like, she'll ask questions. Maybe they'll make her sound a little dumb. I know that's like her intention is to be. As her label as [00:25:00] possible. So to me it's like, maybe I understand it, but my listeners will not understand this point, so let me ask it anyway. Right. So to, to her it might sound like, Oh, well she's a little ditsy sometimes.

Right? But it's not that. It's just that she's trying to really dig deep into every conversation, every question that she could ask. But yeah, Oprah, by no means dumb, I know I use that word, but it's, it's not what I meant by that, but I think. Those kinds of questions, just being very authentic and being like, Okay, well I don't understand this.

Can you actually like expand on that? Put someone on the spot. So I love how she asked that. And then also at the time when I first started, it was Tony Robbins podcast because I love how he just his energy and how we influences people and has those conversations with with people from his seminars, but also people on his podcast as well.

And then recently been tapping into Jay Shetty's podcast. I like it. Yeah, different kinds of pod. I like to get different kinds of inspiration, like it's [00:26:00] different energies. Like Jay Shetty's very like calm guy than you have. Tony Robbins super high energy. You have Overwind for you is like the OG of.

Interviews. But really learning from the best of the best has helped me a lot and seeing like, okay, well what do I wanna ask and how can I get inspiration from what they're asking?

Olivier :: Yeah, I so agree with those. So agree. Anthony Robins, when I listen to him, I feel like I could sort of like running a

Carine: really? Yeah.

Olivier :: When I listen to him, he gets swiped up Oprah. I completely understand. She simplifies it for the person who doesn't get it. She wants the person who never heard of this to understand it at the same level that that everybody else does.

I think it's really brilliant.

Carine: Yeah.

Olivier :: So my next question is, if you can have a coffee with any podcaster, who would it be and why?

Carine: Yeah. It's it's a good question. I think it would go down to Oprah Winfrey again, just because she's like one of the greatest, She, she had the podcast vibe before podcast even existed. And I've always wanted [00:27:00] to be like the person who interviews her, which is very. Very, maybe unrealistic to some people, , but I would love to one day sit down with her and really pick her brain.

She's a very inspirational person. And for someone who's interviewed so many kinds of people, like thousands of people from different backgrounds, some of the greatest people out there I think she would have great things to say and I would be able to talk to her for sure. But yeah, that's a, that's a dream of mine.

Olivier :: Yeah, that's a brilliant one. I love it.

Carine: Little insight on that.

Olivier :: Yeah. . Well, maybe, who knows? If she listens to my podcast, she might reach out. You know who one Never knows One can hope.

Carine: Yeah,

Olivier :: All right, my last question. What's the best way for people to reach out, connect with you?

Carine: for sure. Yeah. So we mentioned my social media platforms. You can reach out on Instagram at Kane Badran on TikTok at Kane Badran. On LinkedIn at Kare Badran , and on the podcast you can feel free to have a listen at. Take the Lead with Karine [00:28:00] Badran on podcast, Spotify, Google, anywhere, anywhere really

Olivier :: Perfect. And I'll be adding all those on my show details

Carine: Thank you so much.

Olivier :: Thank you so much for taking the time and having a conversation with us today. It

Carine: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Olivier:Thank you for joining us today and listening to this episode of business, not 1 0 1. I hope that this interview gave you some invaluable insights and that will help you along your business journey. If you have any questions, comments, feel free to reach out to me and as always, please like share and follow.

Thank you and until next episode.